1 00:01:02,880 --> 00:00:17,310 [Music] 2 00:01:07,660 --> 00:01:05,560 and good afternoon from Philadelphia 3 00:01:11,620 --> 00:01:07,670 Frank here with yet another episode of 4 00:01:14,109 --> 00:01:11,630 UFO news network Sunday a little bit of 5 00:01:16,149 --> 00:01:14,119 update on some various things that have 6 00:01:19,539 --> 00:01:16,159 been happening around the UFO field a 7 00:01:22,810 --> 00:01:19,549 couple big stories this week and we are 8 00:01:25,060 --> 00:01:22,820 going to get to it basically a a quick 9 00:01:28,210 --> 00:01:25,070 review of the season premiere of 10 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:28,220 unidentified last night and also some 11 00:01:33,850 --> 00:01:30,890 more information regarding the Wilson 12 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:33,860 notes it only took a year but within the 13 00:01:39,730 --> 00:01:36,890 last couple weeks or so the proponents 14 00:01:42,899 --> 00:01:39,740 for the notes actually have provided 15 00:01:45,850 --> 00:01:42,909 some level of evidence that is 16 00:01:48,910 --> 00:01:45,860 interesting we will discuss that at plus 17 00:01:50,950 --> 00:01:48,920 some additional matters that have been 18 00:01:54,190 --> 00:01:50,960 that have come up regarding the notes 19 00:01:56,710 --> 00:01:54,200 that I think are well worth going over 20 00:01:59,020 --> 00:01:56,720 in detail but let's get right to it 21 00:02:03,480 --> 00:01:59,030 let's first talk about the season 22 00:02:06,749 --> 00:02:03,490 premiere of unidentified last night now 23 00:02:10,389 --> 00:02:06,759 basically the the show concerned 24 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:10,399 military cases new cases that have not 25 00:02:15,460 --> 00:02:12,890 been discussed openly these witnesses 26 00:02:19,180 --> 00:02:15,470 came forward essentially to the tts 27 00:02:20,979 --> 00:02:19,190 a-team and this was sort of a heads-up 28 00:02:24,099 --> 00:02:20,989 that I had gotten several months ago 29 00:02:26,580 --> 00:02:24,109 that the new season would focus very 30 00:02:28,509 --> 00:02:26,590 largely and heavily on new cases 31 00:02:31,509 --> 00:02:28,519 important to note that none of these 32 00:02:34,090 --> 00:02:31,519 cases are actually cases that took place 33 00:02:38,590 --> 00:02:34,100 during the time that a tip was running 34 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:38,600 from 2007 to 2012 but they are 35 00:02:43,180 --> 00:02:40,850 interesting cases good cases basically 36 00:02:47,020 --> 00:02:43,190 older cases a two of them from the 37 00:02:50,020 --> 00:02:47,030 Vietnam War era one of them over the 38 00:02:53,229 --> 00:02:50,030 Pacific one of them in Vietnam itself 39 00:02:56,620 --> 00:02:53,239 and then another case that took place 40 00:02:59,800 --> 00:02:56,630 during the Balkans war and a fourth case 41 00:03:04,000 --> 00:02:59,810 that took place while during our 42 00:03:06,460 --> 00:03:04,010 continued efforts over in Afghanistan so 43 00:03:09,699 --> 00:03:06,470 basically military witnesses very 44 00:03:10,420 --> 00:03:09,709 credible describing an aircraft doing 45 00:03:12,610 --> 00:03:10,430 other 46 00:03:15,429 --> 00:03:12,620 worldly flight characteristics 47 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:15,439 manoeuvres and again very very 48 00:03:21,250 --> 00:03:18,290 interesting one thing that I did like 49 00:03:23,140 --> 00:03:21,260 about it especially obviously always 50 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:23,150 like when the witnesses come forward and 51 00:03:28,660 --> 00:03:25,730 we find out about new cases but also a 52 00:03:31,179 --> 00:03:28,670 little bit of analysis and I think some 53 00:03:34,179 --> 00:03:31,189 cogent analysis in the discussions 54 00:03:37,030 --> 00:03:34,189 between Elizondo melons involved 55 00:03:39,190 --> 00:03:37,040 justices involved the the the team goes 56 00:03:42,099 --> 00:03:39,200 over a few things and some excellent 57 00:03:44,740 --> 00:03:42,109 points were broached obviously the more 58 00:03:48,039 --> 00:03:44,750 recent cases our technology is advanced 59 00:03:50,259 --> 00:03:48,049 so it gets into a more a gray area if 60 00:03:52,509 --> 00:03:50,269 you will in terms of whether or not it's 61 00:03:54,940 --> 00:03:52,519 something at possibly extraterrestrial 62 00:03:58,750 --> 00:03:54,950 or possibly something that we have 63 00:04:01,569 --> 00:03:58,760 developed ourselves and the point was 64 00:04:04,209 --> 00:04:01,579 made that well that that might be a 65 00:04:07,509 --> 00:04:04,219 little bit more open to question these 66 00:04:09,250 --> 00:04:07,519 UFOs that we're seeing now are also 67 00:04:11,649 --> 00:04:09,260 demonstrating the same kinds of 68 00:04:14,319 --> 00:04:11,659 characteristics that are reported you 69 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:14,329 know back as early as the 60s certainly 70 00:04:21,189 --> 00:04:17,930 in regard to two of the cases that were 71 00:04:23,230 --> 00:04:21,199 brought forward during the show so what 72 00:04:25,899 --> 00:04:23,240 you have here is up it's pretty obvious 73 00:04:28,420 --> 00:04:25,909 we didn't have anything there's no 74 00:04:30,550 --> 00:04:28,430 question that we had nothing back in 75 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:30,560 those days with those kinds of play 76 00:04:36,189 --> 00:04:34,370 characteristics so the only remaining 77 00:04:39,730 --> 00:04:36,199 possibility since you believe the 78 00:04:42,460 --> 00:04:39,740 witnesses are that what was seen might 79 00:04:47,290 --> 00:04:42,470 well have been extraterrestrial nature 80 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:47,300 and also a point that the Elizondo made 81 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:48,770 that I think was quite important that 82 00:04:52,810 --> 00:04:50,930 even if we do develop this kind of tech 83 00:04:55,570 --> 00:04:52,820 it ultimately comes out because it 84 00:04:57,730 --> 00:04:55,580 ultimately gets used that's really the 85 00:04:59,649 --> 00:04:57,740 key there so if it's getting used we 86 00:05:02,170 --> 00:04:59,659 generally have a pretty good idea about 87 00:05:04,689 --> 00:05:02,180 it so I really like the show really like 88 00:05:07,210 --> 00:05:04,699 the fact that the tip that we got from a 89 00:05:09,909 --> 00:05:07,220 source that this would be a focus on the 90 00:05:12,490 --> 00:05:09,919 new season panned out so obviously you 91 00:05:15,820 --> 00:05:12,500 know we're we're etalk to that source 92 00:05:17,529 --> 00:05:15,830 again going forward it lends a lot more 93 00:05:19,930 --> 00:05:17,539 credence to what I've heard as compared 94 00:05:22,330 --> 00:05:19,940 to what some other people who are in the 95 00:05:24,410 --> 00:05:22,340 field are hearing from sources that 96 00:05:26,390 --> 00:05:24,420 they've gotten maybe things check 97 00:05:27,650 --> 00:05:26,400 maybe they don't maybe I'll get into 98 00:05:30,380 --> 00:05:27,660 that a little bit more as we get over 99 00:05:32,060 --> 00:05:30,390 into the Wilson notes but we got a good 100 00:05:32,990 --> 00:05:32,070 tip on that one and that's what I've 101 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:33,000 been saying 102 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:35,610 going back for quite a few months now so 103 00:05:40,550 --> 00:05:37,770 that one did check out they don't always 104 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:40,560 check out but that one in particular did 105 00:05:45,020 --> 00:05:43,410 and certainly glad of that looks like 106 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:45,030 there's gonna be eight episodes as 107 00:05:49,670 --> 00:05:46,770 compared to I believe what was 108 00:05:51,290 --> 00:05:49,680 originally reported as ten so we know 109 00:05:53,930 --> 00:05:51,300 what was what's already in the bag for 110 00:05:55,730 --> 00:05:53,940 this week obviously next week apparently 111 00:05:58,430 --> 00:05:55,740 the focus is going to be very much on 112 00:05:59,450 --> 00:05:58,440 the triangle UFO sightings another 113 00:06:01,790 --> 00:05:59,460 interesting topic 114 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:01,800 David Marlar is apparently going to be 115 00:06:06,830 --> 00:06:04,050 interviewed on the topic he's already 116 00:06:09,050 --> 00:06:06,840 discussed that openly so that that is 117 00:06:10,790 --> 00:06:09,060 going to happen and that's going to be 118 00:06:13,190 --> 00:06:10,800 the focus there it looks like the focus 119 00:06:14,870 --> 00:06:13,200 is going to be on sightings and you know 120 00:06:17,840 --> 00:06:14,880 hopefully maybe some new sightings that 121 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:17,850 Marla has or maybe that Elizondo and 122 00:06:24,530 --> 00:06:21,450 team has gotten tipped off to obviously 123 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:24,540 they've been very openly since the start 124 00:06:29,450 --> 00:06:27,330 of this program openly soliciting for 125 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:29,460 witnesses to come forward especially of 126 00:06:33,230 --> 00:06:31,290 the military variety of people who could 127 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:33,240 back up what they're saying in terms of 128 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:36,570 their military service and obviously 129 00:06:40,220 --> 00:06:38,130 they've gotten some of those obviously 130 00:06:41,780 --> 00:06:40,230 dave Beatty did the same thing with the 131 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:41,790 Nimitz and Princeton case and some other 132 00:06:46,550 --> 00:06:44,730 cases as well so yeah I mean if you ask 133 00:06:47,930 --> 00:06:46,560 him they'll come forward and they'll 134 00:06:50,090 --> 00:06:47,940 they'll talk I think in this new 135 00:06:52,580 --> 00:06:50,100 environment that is a good thing that is 136 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:52,590 certainly something that you have to 137 00:06:58,940 --> 00:06:56,490 give credit to T TSA for and the as far 138 00:07:00,860 --> 00:06:58,950 as changing the atmosphere where people 139 00:07:04,370 --> 00:07:00,870 are a lot more willing to come forward 140 00:07:06,530 --> 00:07:04,380 and to discuss sightings that they've 141 00:07:08,540 --> 00:07:06,540 they've encountered so that's a good 142 00:07:11,060 --> 00:07:08,550 thing I'm really not going to go into 143 00:07:13,100 --> 00:07:11,070 too much more detail about the show 144 00:07:14,810 --> 00:07:13,110 basically for the simple reason is you 145 00:07:17,180 --> 00:07:14,820 know just watch it yourself and make up 146 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:17,190 your own mind but I have to say this is 147 00:07:22,430 --> 00:07:19,290 the the type of thing that the more 148 00:07:25,700 --> 00:07:22,440 hardcore nuts-and-bolts types like me we 149 00:07:30,190 --> 00:07:25,710 love this stuff we you know I've always 150 00:07:33,350 --> 00:07:30,200 felt that UFO witnesses are general most 151 00:07:34,959 --> 00:07:33,360 generally and almost exclusively pretty 152 00:07:37,209 --> 00:07:34,969 reliable 153 00:07:38,019 --> 00:07:37,219 they're good yeah we like what they've 154 00:07:40,359 --> 00:07:38,029 got to say 155 00:07:42,429 --> 00:07:40,369 and we certainly we want to see more of 156 00:07:48,579 --> 00:07:42,439 that and hope that hopefully more of 157 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:48,589 that is forthcoming and next let's move 158 00:07:55,409 --> 00:07:52,610 on to the Wilson notes topic a lot has 159 00:07:58,479 --> 00:07:55,419 happened since the last show here and 160 00:08:00,789 --> 00:07:58,489 last week there was a big zoom meeting 161 00:08:06,309 --> 00:08:00,799 involving a number of people involved 162 00:08:08,559 --> 00:08:06,319 with backing the Wilson notes and I'll 163 00:08:10,689 --> 00:08:08,569 go through most of the important stuff 164 00:08:13,809 --> 00:08:10,699 well that the important stuff for my 165 00:08:16,299 --> 00:08:13,819 view but that one thing they started out 166 00:08:19,689 --> 00:08:16,309 with this and I will start out with it 167 00:08:23,319 --> 00:08:19,699 too and that is basically a Jack Rigney 168 00:08:25,449 --> 00:08:23,329 who originally provided the notes he 169 00:08:27,429 --> 00:08:25,459 said that he's gotten him from a still 170 00:08:30,729 --> 00:08:27,439 unidentified source who got them 171 00:08:34,779 --> 00:08:30,739 directly from the Wilson RCB the Edgar 172 00:08:38,290 --> 00:08:34,789 Mitchell estate and I have taken some 173 00:08:41,189 --> 00:08:38,300 issue in the past not passing judgment 174 00:08:44,049 --> 00:08:41,199 really one way or the other but 175 00:08:46,749 --> 00:08:44,059 regarding us some of the claims from the 176 00:08:48,699 --> 00:08:46,759 note proponents as saying that they 177 00:08:51,610 --> 00:08:48,709 definitely came from the mitchell estate 178 00:08:55,119 --> 00:08:51,620 i was obviously a little bit suspect on 179 00:08:59,110 --> 00:08:55,129 all that for for i think that's some 180 00:09:00,879 --> 00:08:59,120 fairly obvious reasons one was and this 181 00:09:03,249 --> 00:09:00,889 didn't come from Rigney but it came from 182 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:03,259 proponents of the notes was basically 183 00:09:11,079 --> 00:09:08,689 that the the way that the the individual 184 00:09:13,780 --> 00:09:11,089 named individual acquired the notes was 185 00:09:15,939 --> 00:09:13,790 because the folks at managing the 186 00:09:19,389 --> 00:09:15,949 mitchell estate were going to throw them 187 00:09:21,189 --> 00:09:19,399 away and that immediately raised a red 188 00:09:23,769 --> 00:09:21,199 flag to me that sounded highly 189 00:09:27,189 --> 00:09:23,779 improbable and I think that that I will 190 00:09:29,889 --> 00:09:27,199 be able to back that up firstly anything 191 00:09:32,740 --> 00:09:29,899 that any astronaut owns is not going to 192 00:09:35,170 --> 00:09:32,750 be just thrown away you know that that 193 00:09:40,329 --> 00:09:35,180 is fairly obvious and there is a lengthy 194 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:40,339 track record in fact of Mitchell while 195 00:09:47,439 --> 00:09:44,050 he was still alive and his estate 196 00:09:48,519 --> 00:09:47,449 generating revenue as a result of his 197 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:48,529 possessions in 198 00:09:54,639 --> 00:09:51,290 all forms while he was still alive he 199 00:09:57,069 --> 00:09:54,649 and ger Mitchell was trying to obviously 200 00:09:59,650 --> 00:09:57,079 generate some revenue based on the 201 00:10:01,900 --> 00:09:59,660 possessions that he had very famously he 202 00:10:05,799 --> 00:10:01,910 was sued by the federal government back 203 00:10:07,929 --> 00:10:05,809 in 2011 when he put a camera that he had 204 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:07,939 used on the moon up for auction through 205 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:10,730 an auction house called up Bonhams they 206 00:10:15,220 --> 00:10:13,370 had estimated that at auction this 207 00:10:17,790 --> 00:10:15,230 camera might fetch sixty to eighty 208 00:10:20,350 --> 00:10:17,800 thousand dollars so there is a 209 00:10:22,329 --> 00:10:20,360 tremendous value well obviously that 210 00:10:25,900 --> 00:10:22,339 that's a piece that had been to what the 211 00:10:28,299 --> 00:10:25,910 moon but really anything that is in the 212 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:28,309 possession of a an astronaut a moon 213 00:10:32,949 --> 00:10:30,410 Walker is going to have some value so 214 00:10:34,809 --> 00:10:32,959 the idea that these items would have 215 00:10:37,059 --> 00:10:34,819 been just chucked in the trash if 216 00:10:39,460 --> 00:10:37,069 somebody didn't grab them seems a bit 217 00:10:41,980 --> 00:10:39,470 silly and I'll log go a little bit more 218 00:10:43,420 --> 00:10:41,990 into that as we go along but I just 219 00:10:47,019 --> 00:10:43,430 never visiting at this particular 220 00:10:49,540 --> 00:10:47,029 instance the litigation requested the 221 00:10:51,819 --> 00:10:49,550 camera be returned to NASA 222 00:10:54,269 --> 00:10:51,829 Mitchell's position was that NASA had 223 00:10:57,369 --> 00:10:54,279 given him the cameras a gift 224 00:10:59,590 --> 00:10:57,379 bottoms withdrew the camera Mitchell 225 00:11:01,480 --> 00:10:59,600 donated the ended up as part of a 226 00:11:04,509 --> 00:11:01,490 settlement donating the camera to the 227 00:11:06,100 --> 00:11:04,519 National Air and Space Museum and you 228 00:11:08,860 --> 00:11:06,110 know I'm not bringing this up as a way 229 00:11:10,660 --> 00:11:08,870 of knocking Mitchell Ares I do believe 230 00:11:12,670 --> 00:11:10,670 that he was given the camera that it was 231 00:11:14,439 --> 00:11:12,680 his possession it was up to him to do 232 00:11:16,449 --> 00:11:14,449 with it as he chose and if he wanted to 233 00:11:17,530 --> 00:11:16,459 cash in on a little bit while he was 234 00:11:19,299 --> 00:11:17,540 still alive I don't think there's 235 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:19,309 anything wrong with that at all and in 236 00:11:24,540 --> 00:11:22,370 fact Congress enacted a law that 237 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:24,550 confirmed full ownership rights of 238 00:11:29,439 --> 00:11:27,170 artifacts to astronauts on Apollo 239 00:11:32,410 --> 00:11:29,449 mercury and Gemini as well space 240 00:11:37,419 --> 00:11:32,420 missions so again I'd know no issues 241 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:37,429 with Mitchell on this one certainly he 242 00:11:42,879 --> 00:11:39,410 got screwed as far as I'm concerned on 243 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:42,889 this but I do just bring it up but again 244 00:11:49,299 --> 00:11:46,610 it points to the value of anything an 245 00:11:51,790 --> 00:11:49,309 astronaut might own that and nothing 246 00:11:54,929 --> 00:11:51,800 would would be chucked out certainly 247 00:11:57,460 --> 00:11:54,939 even even his UFO material obviously 248 00:11:59,319 --> 00:11:57,470 with the the recent passing of the 249 00:12:03,280 --> 00:11:59,329 Stanton Friedman his archives are being 250 00:12:05,230 --> 00:12:03,290 poured over James MacDonald's archives 251 00:12:06,220 --> 00:12:05,240 are located over at the University of 252 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:06,230 Colorado 253 00:12:12,369 --> 00:12:09,170 there was a came up with a couple of 254 00:12:15,429 --> 00:12:12,379 very interesting finds myself based on 255 00:12:18,669 --> 00:12:15,439 the papers of two-time Nobel Prize 256 00:12:20,980 --> 00:12:18,679 winner Linus Pauling his note his 257 00:12:24,549 --> 00:12:20,990 archives are housed over at the 258 00:12:26,049 --> 00:12:24,559 University of Oregon Oregon Oregon State 259 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:26,059 University I believe it is sorry about 260 00:12:31,090 --> 00:12:28,250 that but Oregon State University 261 00:12:35,499 --> 00:12:31,100 including his UFO material and in fact 262 00:12:37,809 --> 00:12:35,509 there was a blog dedicated to the 263 00:12:41,199 --> 00:12:37,819 contents of that and there was an 264 00:12:44,309 --> 00:12:41,209 article written about his UFO materials 265 00:12:49,059 --> 00:12:44,319 that were in the in the archives and 266 00:12:52,210 --> 00:12:49,069 that is that the contents of that 267 00:12:54,910 --> 00:12:52,220 provided me with leads that led to a 268 00:12:56,980 --> 00:12:54,920 couple stories one is obviously the 269 00:12:58,900 --> 00:12:56,990 infamous Socorro case that Pauling was 270 00:13:01,110 --> 00:12:58,910 interested enough in to follow up on and 271 00:13:03,970 --> 00:13:01,120 another related to his a possible 272 00:13:07,179 --> 00:13:03,980 potential involvement in the Condon 273 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:07,189 committee where he himself outlined how 274 00:13:12,639 --> 00:13:10,490 he would like to see a UFO investigation 275 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:12,649 run a couple of very interesting things 276 00:13:17,230 --> 00:13:15,410 and again that's Linus Pauling so the 277 00:13:19,860 --> 00:13:17,240 idea that any papers whatsoever 278 00:13:23,259 --> 00:13:19,870 regarding edgar mitchell or anyone else 279 00:13:25,090 --> 00:13:23,269 you know wouldn't have any value and 280 00:13:26,470 --> 00:13:25,100 would have gotten thrown in the trash so 281 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:26,480 that particular part of the narrative 282 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:27,850 did not ring true 283 00:13:33,850 --> 00:13:31,569 Rigney did in fact has never said that 284 00:13:36,999 --> 00:13:33,860 but this is something that was passed 285 00:13:39,100 --> 00:13:37,009 along by some others who were proponents 286 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:39,110 of the doxa but based on an interview 287 00:13:44,799 --> 00:13:41,290 with the Keith pastor field and also 288 00:13:46,929 --> 00:13:44,809 based on written his own comments during 289 00:13:50,079 --> 00:13:46,939 this particular zoom meeting last Sunday 290 00:13:52,030 --> 00:13:50,089 he is never mentioned that but that yeah 291 00:13:55,689 --> 00:13:52,040 let's let's also go through some 292 00:13:58,360 --> 00:13:55,699 additional things related to Mitchell 293 00:14:00,280 --> 00:13:58,370 and how his estate may or may not have 294 00:14:02,199 --> 00:14:00,290 been handled obviously there was a piece 295 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:02,209 of property involved and this is the 296 00:14:08,249 --> 00:14:04,730 property a very nice place obviously 297 00:14:12,329 --> 00:14:08,259 that got sold off and then 298 00:14:14,369 --> 00:14:12,339 there was also the hang on a sec here 299 00:14:17,819 --> 00:14:14,379 let's go over to it there was also an 300 00:14:20,189 --> 00:14:17,829 estate sale that that was handled by an 301 00:14:22,829 --> 00:14:20,199 auction house an estate sale company in 302 00:14:24,590 --> 00:14:22,839 Florida after his passing and if you 303 00:14:27,419 --> 00:14:24,600 look through some of the items here 304 00:14:31,349 --> 00:14:27,429 you'll see them I mean literate jackets 305 00:14:39,210 --> 00:14:31,359 face masks all manner of things here 306 00:14:42,809 --> 00:14:39,220 pictures posters furniture even let me 307 00:14:47,969 --> 00:14:42,819 let me scroll down this one books that 308 00:14:50,069 --> 00:14:47,979 he owned musical instruments glasses 309 00:14:52,199 --> 00:14:50,079 there were literally yeah selling 310 00:14:54,329 --> 00:14:52,209 everything off here rollerskates is a 311 00:14:55,469 --> 00:14:54,339 you could have owned a pair of Edgar 312 00:14:59,039 --> 00:14:55,479 Mitchell's rollerskates 313 00:15:02,939 --> 00:14:59,049 so again that idea that if it if it 314 00:15:05,129 --> 00:15:02,949 weren't for this guy saving these UFO 315 00:15:07,949 --> 00:15:05,139 papers from being tossed in the trash 316 00:15:10,829 --> 00:15:07,959 then we wouldn't know about these notes 317 00:15:13,079 --> 00:15:10,839 that that was always highly suspect but 318 00:15:16,259 --> 00:15:13,089 again I I'm a I want to make clear here 319 00:15:18,419 --> 00:15:16,269 that Rigney that never came from Wrigley 320 00:15:20,279 --> 00:15:18,429 so you have to be careful in terms of 321 00:15:22,559 --> 00:15:20,289 what you believe and what you hear it's 322 00:15:24,599 --> 00:15:22,569 not always accurate and always best to 323 00:15:28,739 --> 00:15:24,609 get back to the original source for this 324 00:15:33,210 --> 00:15:28,749 one Ramiz the source about as far as we 325 00:15:36,769 --> 00:15:33,220 can take it back now and his what he had 326 00:15:39,599 --> 00:15:36,779 to say on that zoom meeting last week 327 00:15:41,699 --> 00:15:39,609 obviously pushed my needle of believing 328 00:15:45,359 --> 00:15:41,709 or disbelieving a a little bit towards 329 00:15:47,220 --> 00:15:45,369 the yeah these documents actually coming 330 00:15:49,169 --> 00:15:47,230 from the Mitchell estate but again I 331 00:15:51,689 --> 00:15:49,179 wouldn't say that has actually been 332 00:15:54,509 --> 00:15:51,699 proved he did add some additional 333 00:15:56,309 --> 00:15:54,519 details that he had actually met Edgar 334 00:15:57,899 --> 00:15:56,319 Mitchell a number of different times and 335 00:16:00,239 --> 00:15:57,909 I think that's important I think it's 336 00:16:02,039 --> 00:16:00,249 also important to ask the question you 337 00:16:03,779 --> 00:16:02,049 know if Jack Rigney has some photographs 338 00:16:06,389 --> 00:16:03,789 he said he met the Mitchell multiple 339 00:16:08,609 --> 00:16:06,399 times and that this guy was a friend of 340 00:16:10,679 --> 00:16:08,619 Mitchell's in fact names have been 341 00:16:14,939 --> 00:16:10,689 proffered up during the interview 342 00:16:18,539 --> 00:16:14,949 between Bastyr field and Rigney last 343 00:16:20,249 --> 00:16:18,549 year that if he did in fact meet 344 00:16:21,660 --> 00:16:20,259 Mitchell a couple times is something he 345 00:16:24,390 --> 00:16:21,670 should have been able to produce 346 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:24,400 and in order to buttress these claims 347 00:16:28,590 --> 00:16:26,530 about the notes would have been a 348 00:16:30,630 --> 00:16:28,600 photograph with himself and Mitchell you 349 00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:30,640 know you think that the guy can travel 350 00:16:36,030 --> 00:16:34,510 from Australia to Florida and and pick 351 00:16:38,130 --> 00:16:36,040 up these notes and meet Mitchell a 352 00:16:39,630 --> 00:16:38,140 number of times certainly during those 353 00:16:41,370 --> 00:16:39,640 meetings he would have been able to 354 00:16:43,500 --> 00:16:41,380 produce a camera and get a photograph 355 00:16:49,050 --> 00:16:43,510 with the guy again I'm not questioning 356 00:16:51,210 --> 00:16:49,060 Rig knees honesty here but again if you 357 00:16:53,130 --> 00:16:51,220 think that these notes really represent 358 00:16:54,660 --> 00:16:53,140 what you're claiming what you would want 359 00:16:56,730 --> 00:16:54,670 to do and I don't necessarily mean this 360 00:16:58,410 --> 00:16:56,740 just towards Rigney but really towards 361 00:17:00,950 --> 00:16:58,420 anybody who's involved in all this I 362 00:17:03,450 --> 00:17:00,960 think what you would want to do is 363 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:03,460 buttress those claims as much as you 364 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:07,450 possibly can as you're making them and 365 00:17:13,380 --> 00:17:10,930 not not there raise some fairly obvious 366 00:17:15,630 --> 00:17:13,390 questions Britany his claim that he met 367 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:15,640 Mitchell a number of times well you know 368 00:17:20,010 --> 00:17:17,650 again you want to prove it you don't 369 00:17:21,540 --> 00:17:20,020 want to just say it so that's that point 370 00:17:23,220 --> 00:17:21,550 there were some other points on the show 371 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:23,230 that or that we were on the show last 372 00:17:25,950 --> 00:17:23,890 Sunday 373 00:17:27,750 --> 00:17:25,960 that zoom meeting that I want to get to 374 00:17:31,110 --> 00:17:27,760 so we got that out of the way 375 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:31,120 basically my truth meter again leaning a 376 00:17:34,620 --> 00:17:32,650 little bit more towards the side that 377 00:17:37,230 --> 00:17:34,630 the mid notes did in fact come from 378 00:17:40,020 --> 00:17:37,240 Mitchell's estate but again the claims 379 00:17:41,580 --> 00:17:40,030 that they do stating that as fact well 380 00:17:44,580 --> 00:17:41,590 we don't really even know that yet 381 00:17:47,220 --> 00:17:44,590 because again even Rigby is saying that 382 00:17:50,460 --> 00:17:47,230 this was they were provided to him by a 383 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:50,470 third party so unless he saw those notes 384 00:17:56,250 --> 00:17:54,010 pass over I would say that is that is 385 00:18:03,720 --> 00:17:56,260 not proved yet but at least they are 386 00:18:05,870 --> 00:18:03,730 making some progress now the next piece 387 00:18:09,180 --> 00:18:05,880 that that came out as a result of this 388 00:18:11,130 --> 00:18:09,190 Wilson note super summit last Sunday was 389 00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:11,140 something was turned up by James I and 390 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:12,880 olia old friend of the show of course 391 00:18:18,180 --> 00:18:16,210 and I've known James for a long time he 392 00:18:21,060 --> 00:18:18,190 wasn't able to do the show because he's 393 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:21,070 got obligations of course but he was 394 00:18:24,450 --> 00:18:22,810 able to turn up this piece and he did 395 00:18:27,810 --> 00:18:24,460 get a good bit of credit and of course 396 00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:27,820 he deserves what this is is a this was 397 00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:30,400 on the Steven Greer web site and what 398 00:18:35,610 --> 00:18:33,130 this is is a 399 00:18:37,980 --> 00:18:35,620 initial pitch letter from Commander 400 00:18:41,820 --> 00:18:37,990 Miller to admiral Wilson basically 401 00:18:43,919 --> 00:18:41,830 pitching a presentation by Greer a 402 00:18:45,930 --> 00:18:43,929 possibly bad Mitchell things are still a 403 00:18:48,570 --> 00:18:45,940 little up in the air and in terms of the 404 00:18:52,159 --> 00:18:48,580 the full number of participants but 405 00:18:54,659 --> 00:18:52,169 basically a pitch for a meeting a 406 00:18:57,140 --> 00:18:54,669 presentation to Wilson and any others 407 00:19:00,270 --> 00:18:57,150 who wanted to take part obviously to 408 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:00,280 take a take a listen to whatever great 409 00:19:05,159 --> 00:19:02,410 Steven Greer has to offer regarding UFOs 410 00:19:07,980 --> 00:19:05,169 now what I think is important in this 411 00:19:11,580 --> 00:19:07,990 letter is the date and of course it is 412 00:19:15,210 --> 00:19:11,590 in June of 1995 413 00:19:20,010 --> 00:19:15,220 now nobody questions that the Pentagon 414 00:19:22,740 --> 00:19:20,020 briefing involving Wilson Miller Edgar 415 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:22,750 Mitchell Steven Greer did take place and 416 00:19:28,140 --> 00:19:24,490 they're all in agreement on the general 417 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:28,150 date that it was in April of 1997 so now 418 00:19:33,810 --> 00:19:29,890 we have a little bit of evidence at 419 00:19:35,940 --> 00:19:33,820 least what Wilson's a thinking on this 420 00:19:38,779 --> 00:19:35,950 particular subject was at least going 421 00:19:42,750 --> 00:19:38,789 into the meeting and what we see is a 422 00:19:46,039 --> 00:19:42,760 pitch for this meeting that happens 22 423 00:19:49,230 --> 00:19:46,049 months before the meeting takes place so 424 00:19:51,419 --> 00:19:49,240 Wilson is I I think this demonstrates 425 00:19:53,130 --> 00:19:51,429 this quite clearly at least going into 426 00:19:55,020 --> 00:19:53,140 this meeting is not so hot to hear 427 00:19:59,070 --> 00:19:55,030 everything that Steven Greer has to say 428 00:20:01,140 --> 00:19:59,080 about UFOs that immediately clears his 429 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:01,150 schedule and say let's let's do this 430 00:20:07,380 --> 00:20:03,970 next week now that that's obviously yet 431 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:07,390 not what happened now I did follow up on 432 00:20:11,549 --> 00:20:09,250 this a little bit I do understand that 433 00:20:14,850 --> 00:20:11,559 there and I think this is obvious 434 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:14,860 although what I've heard may or may not 435 00:20:19,230 --> 00:20:17,530 be a hundred percent accurate and in 436 00:20:21,060 --> 00:20:19,240 fact the person who told me this isn't 437 00:20:22,740 --> 00:20:21,070 even 100% sure himself but there may 438 00:20:25,289 --> 00:20:22,750 have been some back and forth along the 439 00:20:27,570 --> 00:20:25,299 way in terms of Wilson possibly giving 440 00:20:29,430 --> 00:20:27,580 Greer some tips some helpful advice in 441 00:20:34,110 --> 00:20:29,440 terms of what to look for that type of 442 00:20:37,919 --> 00:20:34,120 thing but again that's not certain and I 443 00:20:41,130 --> 00:20:37,929 would say what also is well what would 444 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:41,140 be certain is Wilson didn't receive this 445 00:20:46,590 --> 00:20:43,330 letter and then all of a sudden decide 446 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:46,600 and let's say March of 97 hey 447 00:20:51,630 --> 00:20:49,450 hey commander Miller remember that thing 448 00:20:53,850 --> 00:20:51,640 that you pitched me on about UFOs almost 449 00:20:55,380 --> 00:20:53,860 two years ago let's do it next week so 450 00:20:58,799 --> 00:20:55,390 there's obviously some back-and-forth 451 00:21:02,760 --> 00:20:58,809 that going on over this lengthy period 452 00:21:05,070 --> 00:21:02,770 of time but bottom line between the time 453 00:21:07,529 --> 00:21:05,080 that Wilson was initially initially 454 00:21:09,630 --> 00:21:07,539 pitched on receiving a UFO briefing and 455 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:09,640 the time that he actually received it 456 00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:12,250 almost two years would there certainly 457 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:16,000 seem to indicate that he's not so hot on 458 00:21:20,970 --> 00:21:19,090 this topic that he necessarily is 459 00:21:22,860 --> 00:21:20,980 clearing clearing clearing out his 460 00:21:26,370 --> 00:21:22,870 calendar to hear Steven Greer talk about 461 00:21:29,070 --> 00:21:26,380 UFOs so that is not happening now let's 462 00:21:31,799 --> 00:21:29,080 go through some timelines based on now 463 00:21:33,779 --> 00:21:31,809 what we know about what's in the notes 464 00:21:37,250 --> 00:21:33,789 and what we know in terms of what 465 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:37,260 actually happened now in the notes at 466 00:21:46,409 --> 00:21:43,330 the very end on page 15 / e WD Eric W 467 00:21:48,750 --> 00:21:46,419 Davis Wilson asked for a briefing book 468 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:48,760 of his work ascend other papers if I 469 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:50,890 want to he's given an office address in 470 00:21:56,460 --> 00:21:53,530 DC to mail and then and this is a this 471 00:22:00,270 --> 00:21:56,470 is the key point will retire to Midwest 472 00:22:04,380 --> 00:22:00,280 and close office in 2003 now we know 473 00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:04,390 what happened regarding Wilson after he 474 00:22:11,310 --> 00:22:07,840 retired from the Navy and here it is 475 00:22:14,899 --> 00:22:11,320 basically after retiring from the Navy 476 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:14,909 in 2002 Vice Admiral Wilson joined 477 00:22:21,539 --> 00:22:18,850 Alliant Techsystems as president of ATK 478 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:21,549 missile systems company in Woodland 479 00:22:26,279 --> 00:22:24,610 Hills California he was elected 480 00:22:30,419 --> 00:22:26,289 corporate senior vice president in 481 00:22:32,789 --> 00:22:30,429 August 2003 so he's not retiring to the 482 00:22:34,289 --> 00:22:32,799 Midwest he's continuing working in fact 483 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:34,299 he does continue for the better part of 484 00:22:40,470 --> 00:22:37,690 a decade working for ATK tech systems 485 00:22:42,330 --> 00:22:40,480 and that looks like he also worked for 486 00:22:44,490 --> 00:22:42,340 some wholly owned subsidiaries down the 487 00:22:46,799 --> 00:22:44,500 road I'll get into those details for 488 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:46,809 those who were curious ATK has since 489 00:22:51,299 --> 00:22:49,450 been borne out by Northrop Grumman so I 490 00:22:53,549 --> 00:22:51,309 just mentioned that in passing but 491 00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:53,559 during the time that Wilson worked for 492 00:23:00,390 --> 00:22:55,600 them apparently was all ATK at that 493 00:23:02,850 --> 00:23:00,400 point so he's elected okay from 2003 to 494 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:02,860 six he served in Minneapolis Minnesota 495 00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:05,530 as president of ATK precision systems 496 00:23:11,780 --> 00:23:08,080 again a six hundred million dollar 497 00:23:14,730 --> 00:23:11,790 business group specializing in various 498 00:23:16,590 --> 00:23:14,740 weapons ammunition and so on that 499 00:23:20,490 --> 00:23:16,600 defense electronics force protection 500 00:23:22,470 --> 00:23:20,500 systems and so on and so forth now some 501 00:23:23,870 --> 00:23:22,480 folks might say well what he's retiring 502 00:23:26,490 --> 00:23:23,880 to the Midwest 503 00:23:27,540 --> 00:23:26,500 it means he's going to Minneapolis I 504 00:23:29,390 --> 00:23:27,550 don't know if I would describe 505 00:23:31,890 --> 00:23:29,400 Minneapolis or the Twin Cities 506 00:23:35,100 --> 00:23:31,900 necessarily is the Midwest he must have 507 00:23:37,770 --> 00:23:35,110 some idea of what his immediate plans 508 00:23:41,010 --> 00:23:37,780 are after retirement and you would think 509 00:23:43,350 --> 00:23:41,020 that that would have been included in 510 00:23:45,270 --> 00:23:43,360 there in some detail as compared to well 511 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:45,280 I'm just going to retire and not to the 512 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:47,650 Midwest and close my office when clearly 513 00:23:52,860 --> 00:23:50,410 he did not retire he had sort of a not 514 00:23:56,340 --> 00:23:52,870 quite a decade-long career with the ATK 515 00:23:59,820 --> 00:23:56,350 and finally finishing up from 2006 to 516 00:24:03,600 --> 00:23:59,830 2009 he was ATK senior vice president 517 00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:03,610 for Tidewater operations and combatant 518 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:06,130 command relations and in that position 519 00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:09,490 name he did more but basically what this 520 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:11,370 indicates is that they had close to a 521 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:15,610 decade-long career with ATK certainly 522 00:24:20,550 --> 00:24:18,250 not retiring to the Midwest and closing 523 00:24:23,100 --> 00:24:20,560 his office he did a little bit more than 524 00:24:25,980 --> 00:24:23,110 that now when we're on the subject of 525 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:25,990 timeline so let's also explore the 526 00:24:31,830 --> 00:24:29,890 timelines for needs now and this little 527 00:24:35,460 --> 00:24:31,840 piece here from the knids website which 528 00:24:39,090 --> 00:24:35,470 is archived in the web archive which the 529 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:39,100 the Wayback Machine this from October 15 530 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:43,690 2004 two months to the day after the 531 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:47,650 Davis Wilson meeting purportedly took 532 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:49,930 place no this is from Bob Bigelow 533 00:24:54,540 --> 00:24:52,450 himself we at the National Institute for 534 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:54,550 discovery science have come to a time in 535 00:24:58,650 --> 00:24:57,010 which a decision must be made as to the 536 00:25:01,200 --> 00:24:58,660 direction of the Institute we've labored 537 00:25:04,380 --> 00:25:01,210 long and hard coming to the conclusion 538 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:04,390 to place needs in an inactive status any 539 00:25:09,990 --> 00:25:06,730 listen number of reasons but the key 540 00:25:12,450 --> 00:25:10,000 reason is number one we have not had the 541 00:25:12,820 --> 00:25:12,460 need to do any major investigative work 542 00:25:14,830 --> 00:25:12,830 for 543 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:14,840 over two and a half years now this is 544 00:25:19,750 --> 00:25:17,570 this is very interesting because the 545 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:19,760 product people keep hammering home the 546 00:25:25,659 --> 00:25:21,890 point that Eric Davis went to this 547 00:25:27,610 --> 00:25:25,669 meeting pumped Wilson for all this 548 00:25:29,649 --> 00:25:27,620 information wrote up these detailed 549 00:25:33,009 --> 00:25:29,659 notes and then ran them back to Ned's 550 00:25:34,899 --> 00:25:33,019 well that would have been six months 551 00:25:36,519 --> 00:25:34,909 after Ned's has done any major 552 00:25:38,740 --> 00:25:36,529 investigative work so in other words 553 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:38,750 they had this dropped in their laps and 554 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:41,090 basically you didn't do anything with it 555 00:25:45,549 --> 00:25:43,490 it didn't make any kind of impression of 556 00:25:48,430 --> 00:25:45,559 impression on them there there was no 557 00:25:51,810 --> 00:25:48,440 follow-up on their part so I think that 558 00:25:54,970 --> 00:25:51,820 is a very interesting point to make and 559 00:25:57,570 --> 00:25:54,980 again they they basically ran out of 560 00:26:00,279 --> 00:25:57,580 stuff to run down so there's that now 561 00:26:03,639 --> 00:26:00,289 let's take a look at Eric Davis's 562 00:26:05,710 --> 00:26:03,649 timeline in relation to nudes now here 563 00:26:09,460 --> 00:26:05,720 we go again that this is the old Wayback 564 00:26:12,789 --> 00:26:09,470 Machine and we see from April of 2002 565 00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:12,799 Eric Davis is a staff member on knids 566 00:26:25,049 --> 00:26:22,370 and then in August of 2002 Eric Davis is 567 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:25,059 no longer a staff member at NIN's and 568 00:26:31,539 --> 00:26:28,730 then the month that he was meeting 569 00:26:33,730 --> 00:26:31,549 supposedly with Adam R Wilson again he 570 00:26:37,330 --> 00:26:33,740 is no longer a staff member at knids 571 00:26:41,220 --> 00:26:37,340 so the scenario purported in the notes 572 00:26:44,230 --> 00:26:41,230 is a little odd when you think about it 573 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:44,240 you've got Eric Davis who for one reason 574 00:26:48,610 --> 00:26:46,850 or another is separated for mids or was 575 00:26:51,129 --> 00:26:48,620 separated from it whatever the case may 576 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:51,139 be don't know the details on it quite 577 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:52,970 possible it was just because they didn't 578 00:26:57,460 --> 00:26:55,490 have any work form so Davis gets 579 00:27:01,299 --> 00:26:57,470 separated from mids and they've got no 580 00:27:04,060 --> 00:27:01,309 work for him he has this these hot notes 581 00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:04,070 directly from this incredible source the 582 00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:08,510 recently retired director of 583 00:27:14,049 --> 00:27:10,370 the DIA director Defense Intelligence 584 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:14,059 Agency director he's got all this but he 585 00:27:16,210 --> 00:27:15,410 runs it back to the place that just 586 00:27:19,390 --> 00:27:16,220 showed him the door 587 00:27:21,580 --> 00:27:19,400 that doesn't really make any sense to me 588 00:27:24,039 --> 00:27:21,590 I mean why would why would you go back 589 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:24,049 to a place that just showed you the door 590 00:27:27,820 --> 00:27:25,850 within the last few months with this 591 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:27,830 incredibly hot information I mean why 592 00:27:32,350 --> 00:27:30,890 why would you do that again that doesn't 593 00:27:34,210 --> 00:27:32,360 make any sense like why would you run 594 00:27:36,070 --> 00:27:34,220 back immediately was something 595 00:27:39,220 --> 00:27:36,080 incredible something earth-shattering 596 00:27:40,930 --> 00:27:39,230 like this and running back to the place 597 00:27:43,450 --> 00:27:40,940 I just showed you the door again that 598 00:27:45,610 --> 00:27:43,460 really doesn't make any sense and some 599 00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:45,620 other things that don't exactly make any 600 00:27:53,470 --> 00:27:50,720 sense from the notes this is a / Wilson 601 00:27:55,299 --> 00:27:53,480 / the notes of course oak said I Eric 602 00:27:57,250 --> 00:27:55,309 Davis was a team player would keep mouth 603 00:27:59,289 --> 00:27:57,260 shut no media connections obey all 604 00:28:00,430 --> 00:27:59,299 restrictions not in government no 605 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:00,440 clearances 606 00:28:04,900 --> 00:28:02,570 but pedigree excellent and so on and so 607 00:28:07,180 --> 00:28:04,910 forth well that didn't really take place 608 00:28:09,490 --> 00:28:07,190 did it I mean if you bide the scenario 609 00:28:10,659 --> 00:28:09,500 from the nut from the pro notes folks 610 00:28:12,370 --> 00:28:10,669 he'd keep his mouth shut 611 00:28:14,169 --> 00:28:12,380 well that if you believe that note 612 00:28:16,299 --> 00:28:14,179 that's it that's exactly what he didn't 613 00:28:20,860 --> 00:28:16,309 do he wrote up detailed notes and ran 614 00:28:23,110 --> 00:28:20,870 them directly back to Ned's so that kind 615 00:28:27,460 --> 00:28:23,120 of paints him as sort of a a dishonest 616 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:27,470 person not a little bit but a lot he's 617 00:28:32,860 --> 00:28:29,450 sitting there talking to the recently 618 00:28:34,690 --> 00:28:32,870 retired head of the DIA says he's going 619 00:28:36,850 --> 00:28:34,700 to keep his mouth shut and does the 620 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:36,860 exact opposite by again running all this 621 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:41,570 material back to Ned's it you know even 622 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:44,210 if you did mention that to somebody who 623 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:46,370 still worked at the EDS that you had 624 00:28:50,470 --> 00:28:48,530 this meeting maybe you stay close to an 625 00:28:54,150 --> 00:28:50,480 individual there I mean that that 626 00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:54,160 certainly happens in the real world but 627 00:28:59,110 --> 00:28:56,480 do you write up these notes and bring 628 00:29:02,650 --> 00:28:59,120 them back to nudes and distribute them 629 00:29:05,860 --> 00:29:02,660 to everybody now that that just doesn't 630 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:05,870 make a whole lot of sense to me and it 631 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:09,770 seems really a dishonest and be kind of 632 00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:15,130 dumb and here's another point here 633 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:17,600 Wilson specifically asked Davis what's 634 00:29:21,430 --> 00:29:19,490 he going to do with this phase 635 00:29:24,370 --> 00:29:21,440 Davis says I'm gonna keep for private 636 00:29:26,350 --> 00:29:24,380 personal research no that's it that's 637 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:26,360 exactly if you believe the notes that's 638 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:28,850 exactly what he didn't do and I brought 639 00:29:33,460 --> 00:29:30,890 this point up that this stuff makes 640 00:29:36,610 --> 00:29:33,470 Davis look bad and Pro no it's folks is 641 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:36,620 it well you know we needs as a private 642 00:29:44,740 --> 00:29:40,610 company that doesn't work that's not an 643 00:29:46,870 --> 00:29:44,750 adequate explanation for again what is 644 00:29:50,110 --> 00:29:46,880 purported within these notes kind of 645 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:50,120 dumb incredibly dishonest and a 646 00:29:54,850 --> 00:29:52,730 dishonorable behavior will keep mouth 647 00:29:57,070 --> 00:29:54,860 shut etcetera etcetera that's what he 648 00:29:59,680 --> 00:29:57,080 says here told well it made some other 649 00:30:01,330 --> 00:29:59,690 it made some other comments here but he 650 00:30:03,820 --> 00:30:01,340 said that he will keep his mouth shut 651 00:30:10,630 --> 00:30:03,830 well he didn't he did the exact opposite 652 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:10,640 of that so he this well I mean judge 653 00:30:14,950 --> 00:30:13,010 judge for yourself but this is another 654 00:30:16,750 --> 00:30:14,960 piece that doesn't make sense is Eric 655 00:30:19,450 --> 00:30:16,760 Davis this dumb and this dishonest 656 00:30:21,490 --> 00:30:19,460 especially if he might possibly and it 657 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:21,500 does seem like a easy out of work at 658 00:30:25,450 --> 00:30:23,570 this point or looking for work or maybe 659 00:30:27,820 --> 00:30:25,460 he's got something else lined up but you 660 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:27,830 know no job last forever he might want 661 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:29,690 some additional work down the road you 662 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:32,090 know why would you burn the recently 663 00:30:36,310 --> 00:30:34,250 retired director of the Defense 664 00:30:38,850 --> 00:30:36,320 Intelligence Agency in this fashion it 665 00:30:42,810 --> 00:30:38,860 makes no sense yeah like I said possibly 666 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:42,820 he mentions a meeting to somebody and 667 00:30:47,740 --> 00:30:45,410 and that's it he doesn't put anything in 668 00:30:50,950 --> 00:30:47,750 writing and that's even more of a 669 00:30:52,870 --> 00:30:50,960 cardinal sin in terms of just discretion 670 00:30:54,850 --> 00:30:52,880 putting this kind of stuff in writing it 671 00:30:58,270 --> 00:30:54,860 again that just doesn't have the ring of 672 00:31:01,030 --> 00:30:58,280 truth now here's a piece that another 673 00:31:03,730 --> 00:31:01,040 piece that came up within the last week 674 00:31:05,590 --> 00:31:03,740 and change from Julianne Moore in Quebec 675 00:31:08,919 --> 00:31:05,600 now this is actually pretty interesting 676 00:31:12,940 --> 00:31:08,929 and I do note that it wasn't any of the 677 00:31:15,250 --> 00:31:12,950 any of the great researchers that that 678 00:31:16,930 --> 00:31:15,260 are out there pounding the drum for 679 00:31:20,799 --> 00:31:16,940 these notes it came for Julianne who's 680 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:20,809 been compiled literally every possible 681 00:31:25,450 --> 00:31:23,570 reference to all this stuff in the one 682 00:31:29,350 --> 00:31:25,460 compendium and apparently he went back 683 00:31:32,220 --> 00:31:29,360 recently and he found this and and much 684 00:31:33,580 --> 00:31:32,230 much to his credit lengthy interview 685 00:31:37,899 --> 00:31:33,590 going 686 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:37,909 not quite a decade with commander excuse 687 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:42,650 me with dr. Mitchell now of course dr. 688 00:31:49,180 --> 00:31:46,850 Mitchell talked quite a bit during the 689 00:31:51,039 --> 00:31:49,190 over the years about the initial meeting 690 00:31:53,529 --> 00:31:51,049 and what he was led to believe the 691 00:31:55,930 --> 00:31:53,539 follow-up was the Pentagon briefing as 692 00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:55,940 compared to the Wilson notes he talked a 693 00:32:01,560 --> 00:31:57,890 lot about that but here he actually 694 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:01,570 mentions in the last paragraph here that 695 00:32:10,990 --> 00:32:04,730 actually wins a little bit of credence 696 00:32:12,940 --> 00:32:11,000 to the notes to an extent anyway but 697 00:32:15,220 --> 00:32:12,950 that let me read through obviously yeah 698 00:32:16,810 --> 00:32:15,230 this doesn't prove it you know the way 699 00:32:18,820 --> 00:32:16,820 the pro notes fall tricked folks are 700 00:32:20,289 --> 00:32:18,830 talking but it adds a little bit of 701 00:32:20,529 --> 00:32:20,299 credence and I'll give him credit for 702 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:20,539 that 703 00:32:25,510 --> 00:32:22,610 a Greer told commander Miller who called 704 00:32:27,789 --> 00:32:25,520 me and said yes Greer heard from the 705 00:32:30,250 --> 00:32:27,799 Admiral and he's confirmed that there 706 00:32:32,889 --> 00:32:30,260 was an office in the Pentagon funding 707 00:32:35,230 --> 00:32:32,899 all of this subsequently another contact 708 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:35,240 of mind who must also remain nameless 709 00:32:39,850 --> 00:32:37,570 because he's on classified programs 710 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:39,860 encountered the Admiral in Las Vegas 711 00:32:46,090 --> 00:32:43,370 where he had been looking for and trying 712 00:32:49,060 --> 00:32:46,100 to get into the so called strategic 713 00:32:51,310 --> 00:32:49,070 access program around the UFO incident 714 00:32:54,070 --> 00:32:51,320 and had been denied so the two scenarios 715 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:54,080 the one that Mitchell outlines in this 716 00:32:58,060 --> 00:32:55,490 interview and the one in the notes are a 717 00:33:01,419 --> 00:32:58,070 little bit different now that always 718 00:33:03,909 --> 00:33:01,429 could be part of the usual discrepancies 719 00:33:06,190 --> 00:33:03,919 that you get in retelling just as I 720 00:33:08,710 --> 00:33:06,200 talked about earlier how a pro notes 721 00:33:11,769 --> 00:33:08,720 folks were saying that the Mitchell 722 00:33:13,620 --> 00:33:11,779 papers were UFO papers that were getting 723 00:33:16,149 --> 00:33:13,630 ready to be thrown in the trash and 724 00:33:18,789 --> 00:33:16,159 Rigney said though that was that was not 725 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:18,799 the case so here this is different 726 00:33:26,260 --> 00:33:23,210 obviously what Mitchell is saying here 727 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:26,270 is apparently Wilson is actually in Las 728 00:33:30,370 --> 00:33:28,970 Vegas on actually looking in actively 729 00:33:32,350 --> 00:33:30,380 trying to figure out a little bit more 730 00:33:35,169 --> 00:33:32,360 about these strategic access programs 731 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:35,179 doesn't give an exact date it doesn't 732 00:33:40,269 --> 00:33:37,850 make any sense that if he was there in 733 00:33:42,340 --> 00:33:40,279 Vegas after he was retired that he was 734 00:33:44,780 --> 00:33:42,350 still trying to run this stuff down but 735 00:33:47,450 --> 00:33:44,790 be that as it may he 736 00:33:50,090 --> 00:33:47,460 this is a this is what Mitchell said in 737 00:33:52,460 --> 00:33:50,100 an interview we are going back to 2010 738 00:33:54,890 --> 00:33:52,470 it's an interesting piece again it's a 739 00:33:56,419 --> 00:33:54,900 the first bit of evidence that that came 740 00:34:01,580 --> 00:33:56,429 out earlier in the week regarding this 741 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:01,590 and it is interesting it doesn't prove 742 00:34:06,950 --> 00:34:05,250 the notes but what it does is again it's 743 00:34:09,260 --> 00:34:06,960 an interesting piece and of course 744 00:34:12,109 --> 00:34:09,270 everybody who's Pro notes is jumping to 745 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:12,119 the conclusion that the source of his 746 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:15,210 because he's on classified programs and 747 00:34:21,020 --> 00:34:18,690 it needs to remain nameless and there is 748 00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:21,030 that there is that piece and then there 749 00:34:28,419 --> 00:34:22,800 is one final piece that I do want to get 750 00:34:30,740 --> 00:34:28,429 to which is also quite interesting and 751 00:34:34,099 --> 00:34:30,750 finally I'm gonna talk about the last 752 00:34:35,810 --> 00:34:34,109 little piece that came to us by way of 753 00:34:38,180 --> 00:34:35,820 Bob McGuire 754 00:34:42,770 --> 00:34:38,190 now Bob's a solid guy's got a solid 755 00:34:45,500 --> 00:34:42,780 resume he is currently working as the 756 00:34:48,109 --> 00:34:45,510 chief scientist in the office of the 757 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:48,119 executive director at the asking me at 758 00:34:56,300 --> 00:34:52,010 the Hume Center at Virginia Tech and bob 759 00:35:00,109 --> 00:34:56,310 has a long history involved with the 760 00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:00,119 government that he worked for more than 761 00:35:04,359 --> 00:35:02,250 26 years as a member of the technical 762 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:04,369 staff at the Institute for Defense 763 00:35:09,290 --> 00:35:07,170 analysis Center for communications 764 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:09,300 research in Princeton New Jersey and 765 00:35:16,580 --> 00:35:13,890 that's how Bob became a part of our 766 00:35:19,070 --> 00:35:16,590 story now he came out within the last 767 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:19,080 week or so and a little bit more than a 768 00:35:27,410 --> 00:35:21,810 week now and said that while he was 769 00:35:30,020 --> 00:35:27,420 working at this DAC that he was in 770 00:35:31,820 --> 00:35:30,030 contact with Admiral Wilson knew him a 771 00:35:34,460 --> 00:35:31,830 little bit while I was ahead of the DIA 772 00:35:37,340 --> 00:35:34,470 so he knew who he was that was during 773 00:35:40,310 --> 00:35:37,350 the ninety nine oh two timeframe and 774 00:35:46,910 --> 00:35:40,320 those who Wilson is and that somewhere 775 00:35:49,099 --> 00:35:46,920 on the order of 2004 2000 2005 that what 776 00:35:52,700 --> 00:35:49,109 he was able to do was to see a letter 777 00:35:55,190 --> 00:35:52,710 from Admiral Wilson to some unnamed 778 00:35:57,290 --> 00:35:55,200 party who showed him this letter that 779 00:35:59,450 --> 00:35:57,300 confirmed the meeting with 780 00:36:01,730 --> 00:35:59,460 Davis and the content of the meeting 781 00:36:04,610 --> 00:36:01,740 before it was widely distributed now 782 00:36:08,660 --> 00:36:04,620 that is certainly an interesting piece 783 00:36:10,580 --> 00:36:08,670 it came about because Dave Scott at his 784 00:36:12,770 --> 00:36:10,590 Facebook and I asked not what are your 785 00:36:16,310 --> 00:36:12,780 thoughts on the the the Wilson notes and 786 00:36:19,910 --> 00:36:16,320 this was Bob's response and is 787 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:19,920 interesting as far as it goes there were 788 00:36:23,990 --> 00:36:22,050 obviously some more details we'd like to 789 00:36:26,210 --> 00:36:24,000 know I don't expect that he's going to 790 00:36:29,060 --> 00:36:26,220 give up who showed him the letter and 791 00:36:31,940 --> 00:36:29,070 when he says the content of the letter 792 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:31,950 not sure exactly what that means but or 793 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:33,450 the content of the meeting not sure 794 00:36:38,330 --> 00:36:35,370 exactly what that means but nevertheless 795 00:36:40,610 --> 00:36:38,340 it is interesting and he has answered 796 00:36:43,340 --> 00:36:40,620 some additional questions from Joe mirja 797 00:36:46,700 --> 00:36:43,350 and from Keith pastor field are related 798 00:36:49,250 --> 00:36:46,710 to this so we will see again it only 799 00:36:51,940 --> 00:36:49,260 took a couple years broke to me it only 800 00:36:55,900 --> 00:36:51,950 took a year for a couple pieces of 801 00:36:58,100 --> 00:36:55,910 independent information independent 802 00:37:00,530 --> 00:36:58,110 supporting evidence to come forward 803 00:37:02,780 --> 00:37:00,540 regarding these notes we've got them now 804 00:37:06,290 --> 00:37:02,790 and certainly doesn't prove that the 805 00:37:08,330 --> 00:37:06,300 notes are accurate but again a couple of 806 00:37:11,210 --> 00:37:08,340 interesting pieces of evidence and we'll 807 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:11,220 see if the pro notes folks are able to 808 00:37:15,290 --> 00:37:13,530 come up with a little bit more certainly 809 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:15,300 I think I've been able to provide a 810 00:37:21,230 --> 00:37:18,810 couple of problems with the notes I'm 811 00:37:23,690 --> 00:37:21,240 thinking it might be possible that Davis 812 00:37:24,410 --> 00:37:23,700 and Wilson did have some sort of an 813 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:24,420 exchange 814 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:26,970 somewhere along the line about the 815 00:37:34,130 --> 00:37:29,450 meeting that that we know took place 816 00:37:35,750 --> 00:37:34,140 regarding the we're in the Pentagon I 817 00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:35,760 want to be clear about that that gets a 818 00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:38,250 little complicated in the Pentagon with 819 00:37:43,940 --> 00:37:41,250 Wilson Greer at all and that Wilson's 820 00:37:46,700 --> 00:37:43,950 follow-up may not be exactly what was 821 00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:46,710 presented but again what's claimed in 822 00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:49,110 the notes goes a lot further than any of 823 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:52,320 that in terms of Wilson being told by 824 00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:54,770 this unnamed defense contractor that 825 00:38:00,320 --> 00:37:57,330 what they have in their possession is 826 00:38:02,990 --> 00:38:00,330 was not manufactured anywhere on earth I 827 00:38:06,350 --> 00:38:03,000 think it's may be possible if it did 828 00:38:07,340 --> 00:38:06,360 happen that maybe Wilson that confirmed 829 00:38:12,710 --> 00:38:07,350 the 830 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:12,720 mitchell initially that that yeah he did 831 00:38:17,930 --> 00:38:14,850 follow up and was denied access to this 832 00:38:20,090 --> 00:38:17,940 program but maybe davis did nothing more 833 00:38:23,300 --> 00:38:20,100 than mention it to an old friend back at 834 00:38:26,390 --> 00:38:23,310 mids and that got turned into this 835 00:38:28,130 --> 00:38:26,400 rather expansive notes tale open to that 836 00:38:31,190 --> 00:38:28,140 as a possibility although it's hardly 837 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:31,200 proved again still remain highly 838 00:38:35,750 --> 00:38:34,170 skeptical of the notes we will see pro 839 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:35,760 notes folks are saying well the new york 840 00:38:40,190 --> 00:38:38,130 times is on this and in fact ralph 841 00:38:44,030 --> 00:38:40,200 Blumenthal did kick the tires on the 842 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:44,040 story by contacting michael w hall but 843 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:46,410 that doesn't mean that they're going to 844 00:38:50,270 --> 00:38:47,850 go with the story that they're gonna 845 00:38:52,340 --> 00:38:50,280 prove it that that they Arden might well 846 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:52,350 be working on a crash retrievals story 847 00:38:57,050 --> 00:38:55,410 and that that will be coming out now it 848 00:39:00,110 --> 00:38:57,060 was supposed to come out fourth of July 849 00:39:01,850 --> 00:39:00,120 did not come out fourth of July but it's 850 00:39:03,710 --> 00:39:01,860 gonna come out this week we'll see what 851 00:39:06,020 --> 00:39:03,720 they've got we'll see if the New York 852 00:39:08,210 --> 00:39:06,030 Times answers their prayers and it 853 00:39:09,530 --> 00:39:08,220 certainly would be interesting if that 854 00:39:11,570 --> 00:39:09,540 were the case we'll see what they've got 855 00:39:13,070 --> 00:39:11,580 whatever they've got it will be 856 00:39:14,900 --> 00:39:13,080 interesting because it'll be 857 00:39:17,810 --> 00:39:14,910 fact-checked it'll be handled properly 858 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:17,820 unlike a lot of the things that we see 859 00:39:21,830 --> 00:39:19,890 and hear from some of the pro notes 860 00:39:24,020 --> 00:39:21,840 folks I thought one of the interesting 861 00:39:25,970 --> 00:39:24,030 part and McGwire was part of that the 862 00:39:28,220 --> 00:39:25,980 zoom meeting last weekend I thought it 863 00:39:30,110 --> 00:39:28,230 was quite interesting when you hear some 864 00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:30,120 of the panel members including Richard 865 00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:32,160 Dolan talk about these programs as being 866 00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:34,560 these are illegal blah blah blah and so 867 00:39:38,870 --> 00:39:36,510 on and so forth this is an outrage and 868 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:38,880 then McGwire quickly jumping in and 869 00:39:42,500 --> 00:39:40,410 saying well no this isn't illegal it 870 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:42,510 says this is perfectly illegal and that 871 00:39:47,780 --> 00:39:44,610 that's one final point that I want to 872 00:39:49,430 --> 00:39:47,790 get to yeah these types of programs sure 873 00:39:53,060 --> 00:39:49,440 why wouldn't they why would they be 874 00:39:53,780 --> 00:39:53,070 illegal farming out certain sensitive 875 00:39:58,090 --> 00:39:53,790 information 876 00:40:01,460 --> 00:39:58,100 - well scrutinized defense contractors 877 00:40:03,980 --> 00:40:01,470 they build this stuff so they they know 878 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:03,990 a lot about the high end military 879 00:40:09,190 --> 00:40:05,610 equipment that they construct a they 880 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:09,200 build it so of course they know however 881 00:40:14,450 --> 00:40:12,210 that that doesn't make these things 882 00:40:16,940 --> 00:40:14,460 illegal but I do want to mention of 883 00:40:19,460 --> 00:40:16,950 course that there are quite a few things 884 00:40:20,229 --> 00:40:19,470 that could be illegal in terms of 885 00:40:21,759 --> 00:40:20,239 government con 886 00:40:23,469 --> 00:40:21,769 cracks I think that's very important and 887 00:40:25,689 --> 00:40:23,479 that may well come up down the road 888 00:40:28,089 --> 00:40:25,699 rather than just blanketly saying oh 889 00:40:29,829 --> 00:40:28,099 these programs are illegal but again 890 00:40:34,529 --> 00:40:29,839 with lack of oversight it's certainly 891 00:40:38,049 --> 00:40:34,539 and if these usaps are not adequately 892 00:40:40,589 --> 00:40:38,059 looked over and looked after abuses can 893 00:40:44,649 --> 00:40:40,599 go on you have the issue of overcharging 894 00:40:47,139 --> 00:40:44,659 you might have an issue of charging for 895 00:40:49,539 --> 00:40:47,149 work not actually getting done and then 896 00:40:51,369 --> 00:40:49,549 even if all that checks out you have the 897 00:40:53,229 --> 00:40:51,379 issue of spending money on these 898 00:40:55,749 --> 00:40:53,239 programs and what kind of dollar value 899 00:40:57,429 --> 00:40:55,759 are you actually getting out of them and 900 00:40:59,649 --> 00:40:57,439 that will be a question that I think 901 00:41:01,899 --> 00:40:59,659 will be coming up a little bit more as 902 00:41:04,209 --> 00:41:01,909 we go on so I thought that what exchange 903 00:41:05,949 --> 00:41:04,219 was interesting again the hyperbole that 904 00:41:07,289 --> 00:41:05,959 comes from a lot of the Pro notes folks 905 00:41:10,839 --> 00:41:07,299 in this field 906 00:41:12,609 --> 00:41:10,849 give it a listen but largely I don't 907 00:41:15,369 --> 00:41:12,619 take that as any sort of an expert 908 00:41:16,959 --> 00:41:15,379 opinion McGwire shut that talk down and 909 00:41:21,159 --> 00:41:16,969 that Melinda Leslie and her 910 00:41:23,019 --> 00:41:21,169 conversations with Jim semi van some of 911 00:41:24,009 --> 00:41:23,029 and I shot that kind of talked down to 912 00:41:27,699 --> 00:41:24,019 again 913 00:41:29,559 --> 00:41:27,709 legal however very important lack of 914 00:41:31,179 --> 00:41:29,569 oversight can certainly lead to abuse 915 00:41:33,489 --> 00:41:31,189 there certainly can be illegalities 916 00:41:35,259 --> 00:41:33,499 there and if everything is done on the 917 00:41:37,599 --> 00:41:35,269 up-and-up still doesn't mean that we're 918 00:41:39,909 --> 00:41:37,609 getting value for our tax dollar very 919 00:41:42,219 --> 00:41:39,919 important things to keep in mind so with 920 00:41:44,679 --> 00:41:42,229 that I'm gonna wrap the show and you 921 00:41:46,179 --> 00:41:44,689 have a great week and I will talk to you